It isn’t unreasonable to have a mechanism in D&D for allowing the fighter draw attacks off the more fragile characters, nor would it be unreasonable for the chummers… I mean, monsters, to try and “geek the mage!” Sometimes you’d kind of want them to do so, and having a means for the tough guy to guard the mage’s butt actually empowers the players while enabling you as the DM to do your worst, in a sense.

It’s a bit like movies, on rare occasions I’ll watch a comedy, something light and fun with laughs every minute. Usually I’ll opt instead for the darker thriller, the taut horror suspense film, or the edgy independent drama that asks questions… and maybe doesn’t give out answers.

As most of my friends tend toward the lighter and more dungeon-romping end of the spectrum, one might see that I don’t do a lot of role playing. World of Warcraft didn’t start that trend, but I find it interesting that Wizards clearly identifies new potential converts in the ranks of WoW players who otherwise wouldn’t be into role playing (okay that part’s obvious) and that they’d borrow elements from WoW and bridge the gap.

Of course Josh is right too, D&D’s baggage doesn’t have to figure into the sessions, it also depends on the people playing. Really a group of role players can choose to change or ignore any rules they wish so a game of D&D could be realistic, involve an intricate story and tough moral dilemmas, etc., all up to the people playing. Just that there are probably other systems which may make some of those things easier.

There are card and board games which cover the same ground and involve playing with a table full of friends while you’re at it. HeroQuest is one example.

The part I do agree with whole-heartedly is sitting at a table with a group of friends. Or even sitting with three other friends in front of one TV playing the same video game (though that’s getting off to another topic). The game becomes the glue, the social medium for group interaction, and that dynamic is ultimately the best part as long as it allows you to have fun.

“That’s fine, I enjoy games of that kind. Only I want to play them in a different context. In my opinion, there have been heaps of computer and video games, plus card and board games, that have executed that simple premise extremely well. I may be in the minority, but I’d rather play one of those than play a ‘role playing game’ that is really a roll playing game.”

I use to agree with Scott completely but I find that I have to differ now. When I was younger with all the free time in the world I found that filling that free time with complexity was almost always agreeable. These days I find that sometimes complexity (perhaps for example a complex ethical dilemma filled story in a role playing game) is great but other times something a bit lighter with less of a seriouse face is just as or perhaps even more enjoyable.

I also really cannot agree that a computer hack fest is the same as a table top hack fest. Even the most base role playing game involves sitting around with a group of friends as opposed to sitting by yourself in front of a computer. And this is coming from a guy that plays World of Warcraft!

He also links to this article over at Aint it Cool News.

“Hey this seems neat… wait… where have I heard this before…”

It seems that most of the new ideas for D and D 4th are ripped either from World of Warcraft (you can disenchant magic items in D and D now! Oh and guess what, we added Taunt!) or Scion.

This is an actual quote from one of Wizards Excerpts.

“The new cosmology, rooted in a great war between the primordial first creators and the gods, offered a way to incorporate giants into the setting.”

I almost started laughing when I read this. For those that don’t know, this is essentially the over all plot of Scion and the giants are the servents of the Titans which are basically the so called “primordial first creators” in the Scion world.

You can check out the full article on the new giants here.

I did find in my last D and D game that often the between dungeon parts of the game became bogged down and slow as players didn’t seem to know what to do or just didn’t care to do anything. However, they generally had fun trouncing through the dungeons and killing stuff. Of course, there was still a plot and they could interact with it and there were chances to talk with people and interact with the world I had created.

Dice do add a certain amount of drama by themselves.

I think that different people play games for different reasons. I admit I tend to look down on the gamers that have Vampires with Mage Spheres (old WoD) but sometimes I try to step back and just realize that if someone is having fun role playing does it really matter what kind of role playing they are doing?

Anyways what I ment is that in D&D you need more imagination with social interaction (as a player) then with something like Scion. For me that’s a tough thing as I’m not that creative on the fly, but I’m getting better at it as the years roll on. However I can roll dice, and as such have a much easier time in combat. So I think it’s the setting along with the system that make the combat aspects more appealing then the social in a game like D&D for me.

It really comes down to the nigh inescapable premise that most players associate with D&D, one which it seems Wizards has slowly sidled away from in small increments but will probably hang like an albatross around the game’s neck for years to come.

I’m talking about the notion that D&D is a dungeon crawler. A hack n’ slashfest. A monster-kill-and-lootorium.

That’s fine, I enjoy games of that kind. Only I want to play them in a different context. In my opinion, there have been heaps of computer and video games, plus card and board games, that have executed that simple premise extremely well. I may be in the minority, but I’d rather play one of those than play a “role playing game” that is really a roll playing game. Combat can be full of story, and treasure can be fun to discover, but a game which revolves so tightly around those elements to the detriment of all else shouldn’t tease and pretend to be about role playing, it should just revel in its board-gameness or video-gameness and be one of those instead.

I think I’ll finish with a question: Does a dungeon romp need politics, guile… charisma? Is it better off without these things?
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Over the years playing games like Werewolf, Exalted, Shadowrun, and Scion with Josh and the gang I’ve learned that I do like more story driven games as well. However sometimes I just want to roll some dice and hack and slash my way through and adventure. So while I’m not holding my breath to see a 4th Edition D&D game anytime soon it’s certainly something I would like to do once Scion has run it’s course (which I’m hoping will be a long time from now because I’m really enjoying the game and our group).

As a side note, in the game Josh mentioned I think I died a total of 5 times with each time a new character was created because I’m not big on the whole resurection deal. Every time it was a problem with the system because I played less then sturdy characters. For instance my first and favorite character of that game was Wuzzle Tinderfinger, Gnome Sorcerer. It tied the longest of all my previous D&D characters by making it 9 levels before becoming a bucket of yuck thanks to a Great Axe critical (even with an 18 Con I still was a caster type). Anyways point being I’m glad they made characters more sturdy and added abilities to let the fighters absorb more of the damage that would normally go to squishies like Wuzzle. I can say though with certainty if they are building it with the ability to swing and get off a heal in the same round a healer type would definitly be in my future if we ever busted open the game. I’ve played a Cleric before and I like the other spells they offered, but found that in most cases I was healing more then swinging my weapon which as Josh stated isn’t as exciting.