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Dungeons and Dragons: Paragon Path Rules Issue - Gaming News & Views - Pair O’ Dice Games

Dungeons and Dragons: Paragon Path Rules Issue

One of my players was a bit unhappy with his characters plot (or rather lack there of) and decided he wanted to bring in a new character. As he was one of the two leaders in our six-player party he decided to stick with a leader character but bring in a Shaman as they are good at group healer while the other leader, a Cleric, could hand the single target big heals. In our first game with this character things seemed to go fairly well but an issue came up with one of his paragon path powers (say that three times fast!).

I originally posted the following here on the Wizards forums:

How are people interpreting the Healing Guides ability under the Spirit Tempest PP?

When you restore hit points with your healing spirit power, any ally adjacent to or within a conjuration or zone that you created with a shaman power or a shaman paragon path power also regains hit points as if he or she were adjacent to your spirit companion.

This just seems like a mess to me. An ally adjacent to your spirit companion only regains hit points if it is the ally you choose to regain hit points, they don’t always get it (though this statement almost makes it sound like they do always get it). Then I was wondering if it meant all allies or just one ally. It seems they should have said “any ally or allies” if they wanted it to be more than one.

When we first read this we though it just let you pick an ally within the zone as the target for the bonus healing but it does say “also regains hit points” so then i figured we had done that wrong.

What are your thoughts?

I have since re posted it in the Player’s Handbook 2 section here.

At the moment it seems most people think that all targets in your zones also get healed but there certainly is not a consensus. This has lead me to wish that they had not worried so much about making 4th Ed simple and instead had written things in a more specific way similar to how Magic cards are written. I feel that often when games do try to be simple they end up becoming messy and 4th Ed is no exception. For example I remember having problems like this back when i played Heroclix, the simplicity of the game almost created complexity rather than avoiding it.

Feel free to give your opinions here or pop over the the forums and comment there, I would like to get some kind of solution to this soon as the power levels of the three different interpretations are vastly different.

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    jim Says:

    I’m going to break this down a bit and give my interpretation. feel free to disagree 🙂

    “When you restore hit points with your healing spirit power,”

    Ok the defenders in the group get nailed big time. as the cleric has yet to go in turn order and there are more baddies between you and him in init order. the defenders happen to be next to your spirit companion. you hit the defenders with a multitarget or burst heal, healing them enough to last till the clerics turn…

    “any ally adjacent to or within a conjuration or zone that you created with a shaman power or a shaman paragon path power also regains hit points as if he or she were adjacent to your spirit companion.”

    Now this part is tricky. as I don’t have a PHB2 on me at work. lets say you threw a defensive zone around the ranged casters. the way i read this is that the allies in that zone or along the outside edge(adjacent), also regain hit points as if they were the ones standing next to the spirit companion. so whatever heal you thrw on the defenders would also affect these characters.

    the really sticky part comes in if the defenders also happen to be in or adjacent to a conjuration or zone. based on the way it reads, they may be healed twice. once from the actual ability being cast, and then once again by the paragon path power. This one I would normally leave up to the GM. But if they are healed twice, then any “monster” would also benefit from the rule. If the ability read similar.

    just my two cents.

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    As I mentioned there are basically three ways to interpret it but as you mentioned even after choosing one of those options there might be even more choices to make…

    Some people still seem to think that this is more of a replacement effect (a person in a zone or adjacent to a zone gets the healing INSTEAD OF a person adjacent to your spirit companion). This would, in my opinion, be pretty lame and would not come up very often.

    I’m sort of thinking that if the over all conclusion is that all allies within a zone can get the healing then they cannot be either of the original two targets, no one can get healed from this twice. It just seems that with how massive the zones are, this version of Shaman would be too often throwing heals that were healing their mane target as effectively as a cleric but then often healing a number of other targets as well. Not that this would really be the end of the world, but it sort of damages the flavor.

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    Matt Says:

    Think that’s what really drives the effect of this power is flavor. The extra dice on their healing power goes to a member other then the orginal target next to their spirit companion in it’s orginal form. Thus it seems the intent of the Shaman healing is to provide healing to multiple targets. This pargon path seems all about zones and conjurations, thus they wanted them to give a little extra and this path power seems to be in line with that. In all I think giving the extra dice to all people (not counting the orginal target and the one adjacent to the companion) in the zones or conjuration doesn’t seem out of line with other paragon powers.

    The average healing of 3d6 is 7. That isn’t a ton of hit points even if it goes to everyone. At this level a minion hit does that much. So I can’t see that being too powerful. And it keeps the flavor of the shaman (healing multiple targets) without stepping on the toes of other leaders (Cleric still have ridiculious single target healing). So I think we have successfully come up with a ruling on this that is both balanced and in line with intent of the class. I can’t see that being that much better then say my pargon path power, dealing radiant damage to all blooded targets equal to my CHR (currently 3) within 5 squares of me when it’s their turn. If it hits twice it’s almost the same average damage as it is healing, on undead it’s better in one hit, and it’s automatic, it just happens where this shaman on is just a tad more situational (and needs in most cases an on-going Daily power to even come up). Now of course this is one example, and you can’t judge it too much on a class by class basis, but they seem inline. in some ways mine seem a little more powerful in most cases.

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    Hmmm, I think you mistyped something there. The average on three six sided dice will be 10.5 not 7. Still, getting around 10 or 11 healing for the entire group isn’t that sick either so your point is valid.

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    It was mentioned over at the Wizards forum that the spirit companion is a conjuration. If this is true (I’m not certain if it does count as one or not) then this power as we have been interpreting it is a bit broken since all allies adjacent to the spirit companion would get the extra dice. That could be a lot of healing and would not require any additional powers to be used (like dropping a zone). The need for the player to use a power to drop a zone seemed to be a big part of the argument for it affecting all allies.

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    Matt Says:

    Does the summon spirit compainon At-Will power have the keyword Conjuration? If so, I still wouldn’t be that crazy as you can’t get too many people adjacent to one square that already was going to be affected by the orginal power in the first place (in other words a second person next to the companion that isn’t either the target of the Healing Surge and the second target that would have receive the dice healing anyways). It’s a little bit more powerful and I feel it does even out to mine then at that point.

    And yes you are correct on the average. I divided by 3 for some unknown reason (actually I was thinking 3 dice, but knew it was only two values added for the average min and max healing).

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    Matt Says:

    Well I guess you could set it up so everyone moves around the companion to prep for the heal, but that seems a little to meta-gamish and unrealistic in a combat scenario (from a role-play perspective).

    So I guess in that light it could be very powerful (healing a total of 52.5 avg hit points, plus someones healing surge in the case of our party).